[tmtranscripts] NET #46, Aug. 27, 2018

[Roxanne Andrews]

PR

*New Era Transition #46 - Convergence; Judgment and Mercy; Polarization –
Aug. 27, 2018*



Machiventa Melchizedek, Planetary Manager



Topics:

The convergence continues

Our concerns are for everyone, particularly in democratic nations

Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano

Referendums a precursor to evolution of democracy

Capital punishment, judgment and the 7 values

All of us will be judged at some point

A distinction between morality of society and the morality of individuals

The 12-Step program of Alcoholics Anonymous

The Ancients of Days

Adjudication and Adjuster Fusion

Making choices through the democratic process

Judgment and mercy

The 7 core values will become ubiquitous over time

Net worth of individuals over money, not 7 values

Some people do not learn by experience

The polarization in the New Era to a lesser degree

Seek your Thought Adjuster as your best source to go to



TR:  Daniel Raphael, PhD



Members present:  Craig Carmichael, Liz Cratty, Jeff Cutler and Stéphane
Labonteé.



Invocation:  Daniel



*August 27, 2018*



*The convergence continues*



*MACHIVENTA:*  Good morning, this is Machiventa.  I have given my assent
that I would be here and be glad to speak with you.  The convergence
continues and as you will see eventually, not immediately.  Eventually you
will see many wonderful things that you have gained out of these
convergences.  You, yourselves can identify these convergences by the
intentions for their existences, of why people come together for purposes
of their work and the hope of the future and the contributions to this and
all following generations.  These are already in motion; we already have
traction, as you say, about some of these concepts and developments and
there are many people outside of the Teaching Mission, Magisterial Mission,
etc., who have begun to work their projects within the convergence to
develop it into more meaningful and practical ways in their social
existence.  And when we say “social existence,” we mean in all
organizations, anything having to do with 2 or more people with intention
of doing something together, whether that is in trading cabbages in the
garden, or for beef, or for fertilizer or for something else.  This is an
organization in intention.  And through these informal convergences even
with as few as 2 people, there will be ideas shared and thoughts considered
and possibilities again discussed, and this is the beginning of a
grassroots spiritual consciousness on your planet to heal the immense moral
and ethical deficits that exist in your world.



*Our concerns are for everyone, particularly in democratic nations*



Our concerns are for everyone, of course, but organizationally and socially
our concerns are principally centered around democratic nations, democratic
governance, democratic processes for these are the only political entities
that have any hope of existing into a far and distant future.  Other forms
of governance such as communism, socialism—strict socialism—and other forms
without democratic process will ultimately fail—all of them will fail.  It
is essential that we and you focus our intention for insuring that the
democratic process in all democratic nations evolves and is improved.  As
you know from your own work and knowledge about democratic nations around
the world, whether it is Germany, England, France, Switzerland or many
others that they have fulfilled their original intentions.  The evolved
intentions that they must seek to fulfill is the intention to exist
indefinitely into the future, and by that we mean to become
self-sufficient, self-sustaining so that the processes and the intentions
both work together to sustain the nation into a far distant future.  As you
can see from your own nation, there is much work to do.



I am open for questions if you have any.



*Liz:*  I don’t have any prepared questions this morning; I wanted to say
that I am seeing—maybe because my eyes have been opened and I know where to
look—but I see a tremendous movement toward doing the right thing.  So, I
honor you and Christ Michael and Nebadonia and your work because I can see
the fruits of your labors.



*MACHIVENTA:*  Thank you.



*Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano*



*Jeff:*  I don’t have any prepared questions for the syllabus or the course
work, but over the weekend, I read a commentary on the Archbishop Vigano’s
exposé and I am not Roman Catholic, nor have I ever been, but my heart
certainly goes out to the people of Pennsylvania who anguish about all of
this.  Is this appropriate for you to comment about this at this time?



*MACHIVENTA:*  We refrain from discussing this topic; it speaks for itself.









*Referendums a precursor to evolution of democracy*



*Craig:*  On the democracy topic, I noticed that some of the states in the
United States have permitted citizens to cause a referendum to be held,
which they call an initiative, and I personally have felt that this is
about the most positive sort of structural development in my lifetime, of
the evolution of democracy.  Would you care to comment on that?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes, gladly.  As you see, the initiative referendum process
is a precursor to the local community design teams for the design and
validation process.  The topics the design team can act on are multiple
ways, both social, political, economic local, national and so forth.  It is
a process that is far advanced of the referendum process as its very
beginnings brings minds together to come up with—not a consensus—but a well
thought out intelligent solution or suggestions for solutions to a
problem.  There are no limitations to the recommendations that a design
team can make; they can make recommendations for changing a State
Constitution or National Constitution; they can come up with a new design
for the democratic process and initiate that within their own local area.
The wonderful thing of the design team process is that it is open to anyone
and everyone and is a thoughtful process.  This means that the mental
intelligence, intellectual and educated, resources of a nation can be
brought to bear in the association of many thousands of minds on a
problem.



What will erupt out of that is the necessity for compiling or for
collecting those shared insights by teams, and some means by which teams
can access the findings of other teams, and then begin associating them
into larger solutions for larger problems.  This has been discussed some
months and years ago, as what This One calls the “Library for Sustaining
Human Wisdom.”  As it was suggested before, this would best work as an
online library that could be accessed by anyone and would have someone, or
some process to associate the issues so the results could be found.  You
have a very similar process in Wikipedia, as in Wikiquotes and
“Wikieverything” else that enables individuals to find what they are
looking for, which gives them more options for developing their own
thinking and solutions.  We appreciate your question.



*Craig:*  You answered my next question as well, which was about whether
the referendum or initiative process could be used to advance and evolve
democracy further.  So, I understand that you are saying that design teams
can get input from everyone, and then I suppose at the end of the process,
make a recommendation which would then be voted on by the populous?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes, I’m biting my lips as a human would, saying that is a
naïve approach, but yes, it is a workable beginning.  It is essential that
people physically meet together, rather than online to work through these
problems.  Later on the libraries will be developed and referenced much as
academics do to use those references to work on their own projects.
Nonetheless, it is always enhanced immensely by the synergy that occurs
within a design team, as minds come together and develop new ideas and
thoughts and creativity and options for the problem or situation.  How it
is then presented to the public to be voted on is another thing to
consider.  We know and you know that there is more than one option to the
solution of problems, and that perhaps it may be more workable, rather than
either/or voting, for this or approving it or denying the vote for it, that
there be a preference selection given to voters so they have a wider
spectrum of options to chose from.  This would then invoke the thinking and
discernment of the voting public, the individual to consider options and to
weigh/discern them.  It is our intention in supporting this development,
both in the democratic process and design teams, that it become an
educational process, a learning process for the teams to provide a learning
function to the public and to themselves and to the broader public of the
nation and states.  When this occurs, then you will have progress achieved
an evolutionary progress in your social existence.



*Craig:*  I’m sure my comprehension will grow as I consider the transcript.



*Capital punishment, judgment and the 7 values*



*Stéphane:*  (Joining a few minutes late,) I haven’t followed the stream,
but I do have a few questions that may be completely off topic, but in the
last sessions capital punishment was mentioned for predators as a response
from society.  My question is around judgment:  How is judgment implemented
after this life?  Is it purely based on the 7 values and how is it
differentiated from say someone who kills someone personally, or society
taking capital punishment on someone deemed to be a menace to society?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Are you, in your usage of the word “judgment,” are you
talking about the judgment by the Ancients of Days?



*All of us will be judged at some point*



*Stéphane:*  Yes.  I’m not sure if there are different types of judgment,
but we all will be judged at some point based on our activities on earth?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Gladly.  The principle judgment of the Ancients of Days is
usually along these lines:  The willingness of the individual to be in
compliance, or not only in compliance with God’s Will, but who *wills* to
do God’s Will in their lifetime.  It is also an element of the intention,
the intent of a person as they lead their life as a mortal; those are the
considerations.  The 7 values are your text book guidelines for living your
life as an ethical and moral individual in a social world.  This helps
prepare you for your own transition and your eventual judgment, when your
intention is in alignment with doing God’s Will, then you will be judged
aright by the Ancients of Days.  Your question is important as it brings a
distinction to life here and elsewhere.



*Stéphane:*  Affecting their judgments, the Ancients of Days do take into
consideration acts that were done based on someone’s own decision, or
somebody was following another order or somebody else’s order, in this case
society’s order to capital punishment of predators.



*A distinction between morality of society and the morality of individuals*



*MACHIVENTA:*  If I follow your question correctly, there is a distinction
between social morality of society and the personal morality of
individuals.  The society acts as a group decision to remove people, as you
call capital punishment, which is a misnomer, as it is not an immoral
offense.  Even the individual who is the executioner in that case is not
morally culpable in that situation where it was ordered by society or by
the courts.  Does this attempt to answer your question?



*Stéphane:*  Yes, so it is between social morality and personal morality.



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes.



*The 12-Step program of Alcoholics Anonymous *



*Jeff:*  I’d like to follow-up on Stéphane’s question.  I asked you a while
back if the 12-Step program for the aid of people with alcoholism was
divinely inspired and you answered yes.  My understanding is that part of
that process is to go to people that you have harmed and apologize to them
with sincerity for the harm that you have done him or her.  Is part of the
adjudication by the Ancients of Days dependent upon a rehabilitation system
that is similar to that 12-Step program?



*MACHIVENTA:*  No.  The measurement is the intention of the individual.
For instance, there may be individuals who go to those they have offended
and apologize only as a requirement of the 12-Steps; they would not be
sincere, would they?  And so they would be in moral arrearage, so to speak,
of their duties to the 7 steps and to their effectiveness to be healed.
The Ancients of Days, their spectrum of consideration for the finality of
the decision takes into consideration the capability of the individual to
become open to remediation, whether they can be healed.  Only the
individual can heal themselves; there is an immense amount of spiritual
support for anyone who sees what they have done and is very remorseful
about that situation and wishes to proceed in their ascendant career.



*The Ancients of Days*



All of those things are very evident to the Ancients of Days; in fact there
is a transparency in the soul record of that individual which is easily
read by the Ancients immediately; it only takes mere moments, or parts of
moments to adjudicate the individual.  When you consider the work of the
Ancients of Days, and that the trillions of individuals who are passing
under their scrutiny, these decisions come quickly due to the clarity of
the record of the individual soul.  Empty souls, of course, have nothing
there to read and that individual has made a statement to themselves by the
acts of omission to not move themselves forward morally and ethically in
the lives of others, and particularly not to be of service to themselves
and to others nor to make ethical and moral decisions.  You too, could make
such decisions if you have the clarity of the soul record and you could
read that, and even if you were an adjunct to the Ancients of Days without
the authority of final judgment, you could easily come to similar
conclusions yourself.



*Adjudication and Adjuster Fusion*



*Stéphane:*  Machiventa, does everyone get judged at some point before
Adjuster Fusion?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes, most definitely.  The Adjuster Fusion comes long after,
or after your adjudication.  For those individuals who are sleeping
survivors, they must wait for the dispensation to arise from that
situation, and they are judged at that time.  If you are a God believing
individual who wills to do God’s Will and you pass through this, your
judgment will occur within 3 days before you arrive at the Resurrection
Halls.



*Stéphane:*  So this judgment happens at your resurrection at Mansonia, or
just prior to?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes.



*Stéphane:*  And then it could happen thereafter depending on
circumstances, it could happen again before fusion?



*MACHIVENTA:*  We prefer not to elucidate too much on this, as there will
become much erroneous speculation among readers as to how this occurs, when
does it occur, what happens during the 3 days, and so on.  Those 3 days are
an era of mystery, and we prefer to keep it that way.



*Making choices through the democratic process*



*Craig:*  Back to the topic of making design team selections for the
democratic process, or through the democratic process, I’ve always felt
that the single ballot—I call it the “Illiterate’s X ballot”—is polarizing
and limiting in choices, that a range of options is that which people can
rank, so I would say that the proper way to vote is to rank the choices and
then drop each least popular choice until one choice has the majority.  So
would that be the way it is done on most planets?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Let us concern yourself only with Urantia.  That is
certainly an option that is available through one of many options in the
democratic process for making selections.  It is a process… whatever
process is chosen must be the process that has been discerned by the voters
and they choose which one they prefer to use.  Remember too, that the
process of choosing, the outcome may vary or differ depending on the topic
that is involved, that is discussed.



*Craig:*  I guess my main point was just that in order to have a range of
options, you have to have a way to select between them, rather than just a
“this or that” choice, which tends to make the option that is most
different often win even though it is chosen by a minority.  The other
options that are more similar, any one of them would be chosen by the
majority but they “split the vote” and so the minority option wins the vote
instead.  That’s what I see as something that needs to be addressed and
changed.



*MACHIVENTA:*  That sounds like a good topic for a local design team, does
it not?



*Craig:*  (Laughing.)  Right!



*Judgment and mercy*



*Liz:*  This whole concept of judgment troubles me because my only frame of
reference is human judgment and one of the things I love about my
relationship with the Heavenly Father and my Thought Adjuster and Christ
Michael is the opportunity of mercy.  So when we talk about judgment, I
don’t know what that means from your perspective, nor do I understand where
mercy comes into the equation.



*MACHIVENTA:*  We refer you to your *Urantia Book*, which discusses this
very thoroughly in the text.  Mercy and justice are important facets of
judgment.  Mercy must be extended throughout the whole process of the
ascendant career of the individual to see that there may be potential for
them to be rehabilitated or to be saved.  (Machiventa:  neither of those
words set right with me in this discussion.)  The act of judgment for an
individual who’s Thought Adjuster has vacated that individual’s mind, and
that this person is conscious and awake and has thoroughly denied the
existence of God and has chosen deliberately not to do God’s Will and wants
to continue to wreak havoc and violence upon other people, is very simple.



The judgment of the Ancients of Days in this case is immediate and that
this person would be part of the sleeping survivors, and there would be as
you have seen in your Grimm’s Fairytales and such, the Grim Reaper where a
scythe cut of the Grim Reaper takes away all of those individuals where
there is absolutely no hope of saving this individual and they have no hope
of being saved and do not care to be saved.  There, this distinction is
very great.  Their mercy has already been granted long before the mortal
came into existence, knowing that mercy is always available for the
individual who has even the slightest inkling that there may be a God, and
the slightest inkling that maybe that good exists in them, and maybe there
is a possibility of doing good in their life, whether they would be saved
or not.  You see, mercy always exists…  (Interruption that disturbed
Daniel’s link with Machiventa.)



[This is *Daniel:*  I can’t carry that discussion further.]



*Liz:*  I’m going to bring this up again next time.  I will do my research;
this is something that is near and dear to my heart and I appreciate
Machiventa’s clarity and I feel like he didn’t get a chance to finish, so
with his permission I will pursue this next time.



*The 7 core values will become ubiquitous over time*



*Jeff:*  Earlier in the conversation today, it was stated that the 7 core
values are a logical place to validate so many different things that it
should become—I’m reading between the lines here—ubiquitous over a period
of time.  Is that your understanding, or your belief?



*MACHIVENTA:*  That’s our recommendation, yes.



*Jeff:*  So, to add on to that, for something like this to become very
widespread and accepted as a benchmark for arriving at what may be laws,
rules or behavioral norms there has to be some sort of a buildup of the
authority by which  this model is employed.  What comes to my mind as
“SPQR, *S*enātus *P*opulus*q*ue *R*ōmānus” that was carried by Roman
Legions to establish the authority for what they were doing.  My question
here is:  Is there something that we can do along with trying to build
educational material that would lend authority to the use of this model?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes, most definitely.  Now you have started to connect the
dots between the 7 values, embedding them and investing them in
organizations, and the work of the local community design teams, which can
also act as participants in the democratic process.  Teams can recommend
changes to existing bodies and can become politically active in the
democratic process to recommend bills and legislation and so on.  They can
also become generators of reliable candidates, and that each possible
candidate would have a brief synopsis of their lives, careers, and values
and that this would be available through your electronic devices when you
scroll down and highlight their name, etc.  You have many processes that
can help bring the values into the public process and then to the
democratic process of your nation and all organizations.



*Jeff:*  Wouldn’t it be nice if that was available to us coming up to this
November?



*MACHIVENTA:*  We have made these suggestions many years ago, but no one
listened.



*Craig:*  I think that would be fantastic if we could actually find a
reliable bio of the candidates that are running.



*Net worth of individuals over money, not 7 values*



*Stéphane:*  If you look at the current makeup of governments today, most
of them have a large wealth, a net value associated—I think I heard the
average net worth of Senate members is 15 million dollars, and so if you
were to do this comparison of each individual as per the 7 values, I think
you would find a leaning towards one end of the spectrum at the current
moment.  Would you agree with that?



*MACHIVENTA:*  That would be most difficult to assess, as there are
individuals who have very little money, who would also think that a person
who has lots of money would be a good person to vote for.  Other
individuals would vote the other way.  The assessment of money is not a
good criterion to use in the assessment of an individual’s capability to
make wise and discerning opinions, votes, and choices.  We are striving to
bring democratic process around to a more intelligent and well balanced
spectrum of candidates to assist the evolution of your nation and all
democratic nations.  This is a culture-changing process, and as you know
will take decades.



*Some people do not learn by experience*



The incident you mentioned as the election of 2016 and eventually of 2018
and 2020 is such that this is the moral crisis that is needed to make and
convince people to think more reasonably and rationally and logically.
There are some, as you know in all nations who no matter if they are right
or wrong will still vote the same way.  These people are those who do not
learn by experience and there is little hope for assisting them to learn
otherwise as they are adamant in their opinions, and even when they accept
other options, they continue to vote the way they have always voted.  This
is the height of the human error.



*The polarization in the New Era to a lesser degree*



*Stéphane:*  Machiventa, you said before that you have no preference for a
2-party system over a multi-party system. Even with a multi-party system
there seems to be polarization from liberal and conservative factions.  How
do you see this polarization progressing in the new era?



 *MACHIVENTA:*  In the New Era there will continue to be polarization, but
not the extreme polarization that you see today.  Yes, there will be the
conservative side and the liberal side even when the 7 values, morality,
and ethics are discussed.  It will be a huge step of progress if that were
the context, that there would be ethics and morality and the 7 values would
be considered in choices and decisions.  Yet, there would be a conservative
side to that and a liberal side to that and we have no objections to that.
That will continue for many centuries.  In the advent of the Days of Light
and Life, it becomes more and more porous that government is not needed,
that people become self-governing and that there will be individuals who
want to be strictly conservative and others who are still liberal and who
go their own way.  This is an evident fact even in worlds that are
developed, even those that have been in the Days of Light and Life for a
long time.  Individuals still have free choice and that will continue to be
exercised even to the last days until the next stage of the 7th stage of
the universe.



[This is *Daniel:*  I’ve had a really tough week in many regards and I
didn’t sleep well last night and so with your forgiveness I would like to
bring this to a close.



*Craig:*  Sounds like a great idea.



*Liz:*  Do we have parting words from Machiventa?]



*Seek your Thought Adjuster as your best source to go to*



*MACHIVENTA:*  We hear the earnestness in your voices; we hear the
emotional attachment to these topics.  But if you are a discerning member
of this team you will already have discerned that there is some
fragmentation and diminishment of returns in the topics we have been
pursuing.  We are deeply grateful for your thoughts, for your insights, for
your delving into these topics.  The topics of ethics and morality has been
very exciting for us to see how you have worked your way through these
topics, these situations, and the issues of morality in your current and
future organizations of your society.  Know that your Thought Adjuster is
always the best source to go to for the decisions and discussions of the
topics you wish to use.  You must consider too, with a bit of humor, that
your Thought Adjuster is the ultimate “Wikipedia” of universe knowledge and
wisdom.  This is why we always suggest that you go to meditation and be
open to receive your Thought Adjuster’s sharing, whether that is in silence
or that is in open discussion with you.  Know that we are here to support
you in all regards when you wish to do the Father’s Will, even if it is a
mere thought of “maybe I ought to do that.”  Thank you and good day.

*# #*
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