[tmtranscripts] CWM #75, May 10, 2013

[Roxanne Andrews]

PR         

Conversations With Monjoronson #75 - Mortal Participation; Vern Grimsley - May 10, 2013

 

Topics:

The necessity of mortals' conscious participation in the Correcting Time

Events are changing the future destructively

How to ask for celestial assistance

A reader wants something more from the celestials than good advice   

An example of co-creativity

The celestial view of the Vern Grimsley situation

Why is the Urantia Book movement thought of as a cult?

The remnants of the Lucifer Rebellion

Revelation continues-be open to it

The importance of the Teaching and Magisterial Missions

The disappointment of angels

Recent morontia residents speaking to current TM groups

Update on world's progress toward the new morality

Awareness and consciousness must precipitate right decisions and actions

What mortals must do before Monjoronson manifests in physical form

 

TR:  Daniel Raphael

Moderator:  Michael McCray

 

May 10, 2013
 

Prayer:  Heavenly Father, Father Michael and Mother Nebadonia, we are eternally indebted to you for our lives, past, present and future.  We are awed by the Universe you have created and maintained for the benefit of your children.  We are grateful for being born on this beautiful world of Urantia, backward though it is, for it gives us ample opportunities for the growth of our souls.  We are thankful for "The Urantia Book" and for all the spiritual beings that are helping us through the Correcting Time.  Most of all, we are grateful to Monjoronson and his staff for devoting so much time and effort toward teaching us about morality and social sustainability that this world so desperately needs.  Amen

 

MONJORONSON:  Good morning, this is Monjoronson.

 

MMc:  Good morning and before we get started with our questions, do you have anything that you would like to say to us today?

 

The necessity of mortals' conscious participation in the Correcting Time
 

MONJORONSON:  One moment.  Yes, briefly.  That is that the Correcting Time being a co-creative development has two partners: that of spirit, which is personal and which is planetary and local universe in dimension, and our mortal companions.  There is a true need for your conscious participation with us to bring this Correcting Time into development and fruition.  This cannot be done without you, and I am here to tell you that we will not do it without you!  We ask you to be open and receptive to those opportunities which come to you, and if you ask, we will make them so forthright, so obvious that in order to ignore this opportunity you would have to be quite spiritually and energetically blind.  We are not talking about intuitively aware, but to be obviously aware in the dimensions of your world around you, to be aware and cognizant of opportunities, something that presents itself which does not look like the past, something which is developmentally new-familiar, but new-something that you could participate with and contribute to.  This is what we ask of you, to do this.  

 

Events are changing the future destructively
 

You see, the events and developments that are occurring on your world right now will continue on, and though you live here securely in one of the states of this nation and other nations around the world that live in peace-relative peace-you are seeing events in the world which are powerfully changing the future, destructively.  Your conscious participation is needed to change that destructive future to a constructive one.  It is a process.  It is not done by instantaneous miracle.  Just as you see the fragmentation and disintegration of civil life in the Middle East, you also see this as a gradual development.  Your participation helps to change the development of events into the positive and constructive.  You may not see that, and it may not be obvious to you, but you are needed to assist us.  Even if you do not have hands-on contributions to what we are doing, you can have conscious minded hands-on participation with us.  This is definitely needed.  It is not that we are dithering and do not have a clue about how to proceed-quite the contrary-we are very definitely aware of what is needed and the probable outcomes.  We need to assist you to guide those positive constructive probable outcomes.  I hope you understand that at any given moment, there are multiple, probable lines of development that can occur from that moment.  They can vary from the most destructive to the most constructive.  Your consciousness, your conscious participation with us can tip the scale in the direction of positive outcomes.  You are needed.  You are useful.  And though you are one of billions, you are powerful to affect the course of those billions.  You simply have to believe so and consciously direct your minded energy to positive outcomes-even if it is solely to the extent of asking us to participate in a positive outcome for some development.  

 

How to ask for celestial assistance
 

If you ask us to do that, you might also want to ask, "Are you in agreement with that?  Would you support that?" and almost all of you will hear our response.  If it is "No," that will be very clear; if it is "Yes," that will be very clear.  And if it is "yes," then we ask you to urge us on to do the work.  It is like asking your partner or one of your children, or a friend to come over and assist you to plant the garden:  "Would you help me to open the packages and plant the seeds in the furrow to help me do this?"  "Would you be willing to do this?" and they say, "Yes."  "Then please come on over in a half hour and we will begin."  So, our relationship with you is just as pragmatic as it is with your friends, neighbors and family; it is an agreement.  Many of you ask us to do something, but you assume that we are sent to do so.  When it is for the obvious good of something, you can assume that we will.  However, when it calls for co-creative enterprises and activities, then it is best to check with us to see if we will.  

 

Oftentimes, mortals ask us to do something and we do not do it, simply because it would work against the ultimate good of the individual or someone else or your environment.  This conscious relationship helps you know where you are with us, and you can know what we support or do not support.  This is a learning activity.  Do you see that you are in a learning situation?  Many social action scientists have described these two situations as:  Learning situation #1, and learning situation #2.  What you want for a learning situation #2 is feedback whether you are on course or not.  And when you understand you are on course, then of course, obviously you would want to always amend your statements of empowerment to us, to align yourselves with God's Will through us, so that your will and our will and God's Will are in alignment.  This is where you want to be in this lifetime, all of your morontial lifetimes, and all of your spiritual lifetimes and your eternal exercise in the Corps of Finality.

 

 A reader wants something more from the celestials than good advice

 

MMc:  Thank you.  Looking deeply into some of the questions I've received from the audience members, they seem to be having some difficulty in understanding. or not necessarily 'understanding,' but in getting their mind around, how they might conceivably work in a co-creative atmosphere with spirit.  One man, wrote me, "A part of me wants something more from the celestial forces than good advice," that he is working here in trying to understand his place within this co-creative scheme.  Would you like to comment on that?

 

MONJORONSON:  Yes.  We will review this once again; I want it to be abundantly clear.  Working co-creatively, consciously co-creatively with us, is the middle ground between the two extremes of leaving it up to God and doing nothing on your part, and doing everything and never involving us to participate with you.  A middle ground of co-creative, conscious activity with us involves this:  is to be discerning.  Let us say you are on a board of directors of a large corporation, and that for this wonderful position and the work that you contribute, you receive $200,000 as your payment for being on this board of directors of this corporation.  So, you understand from the very beginning that this is a multi-national corporation of some great dimension, and you see that your corporation is going in the wrong direction environmentally.  It is going in the wrong direction with the indigenous people who live in the nations where your mines are located, where your drilling rigs are located, and you see that the corporation is going in the wrong direction with its employees, not giving them a fair wage, so that they can live comfortably and participate-and even buy the products of the corporation, which assists everyone.  

 

An example of co-creativity
 

Now, in that situation, you realize as a board member that you are one of 21 people, and that you are a minority within this 21 people.  And, you also recognize that there are 5 other people beside yourself who are on the same side of the fence as you are, with these environmental and social problems/situations, but that there are over 14 who are definitely on the other side and the remainder is on the fence.  You, as a student of social sustainability realize that your corporation, even though it makes $5 Billion in profits each quarter, may someday not exist because it is not in alignment with the ultimate goals of Planetary Management - social sustainability.  You realize that there will be corporations in the future, but only those that are in agreement with the principles of Planetary Management and social sustainability.   Therefore, before your quarterly board of directors meeting, in understanding all these things, you take a retreat to your mountain cabin, or to the house on the beach-or wherever you can be in quiet repose-and you settle yourself comfortably where you are, and you have a conversation with us.  You say, "Monjoronson and my friends of light, I have a situation that I cannot control, that I cannot be of immense influence.  I ask that you do something for me that I cannot do."  And I would answer, "And what will that be?"  And you would say, "I ask you to give the other board members options for considering the positive developments I've discussed.  I can verbally present my position to the other 20 board members, but it is your mindedness, your influence in their mind mechanisms to give them options for consideration that I feel are necessary and positive.  How do you feel about that, Monjoronson?"  Monjoronson would say, "I am in complete agreement with you.  We would be glad to be of great influence to your fellow board members, but I assure you that we cannot change their decisions, as those are sovereign to each individual.  However, as you know, we and the midwayers and others can be of immense influence to their mind, to open their mind to other possibilities of how to help this corporation survive."  Then you would say, "Wonderful!  I appreciate that.  Would you move forward with that, please?"  And Monjoronson would say, "Well, yes, of course."  And then you would say, "Please do so; I ask you and direct you and the angels and celestials and midwayers to move ahead with this as best as possible.  Thank you very much."  

 

Now, my friend, that is co-creativity.  It is even to the minute perspective of assisting you to find the screw to your watch that you dropped on the floor that is underneath the couch-we see no difference with that.  We are in an infinite relationship with you!  We want you to learn how to be in relationship with us.  We offer you our participation, our conscious participation with your conscious participation to do the things that need to be done to fulfill the Correcting Time and the development and evolution of your planet into the days of light and life.

 

MMc:  Thank you.  I had suspected that this is exactly what co-creativity was, but until you stated it, I had not come to grips with the depth of the process.

 

MONJORONSON:  We hope that you have an appreciation for this and it matters not one iota how big or how small the problem is, that it requires a mortal's conscious co-creative participation with us using the same mechanisms as I have just described.

 

The celestial view of the Vern Grimsley situation
 

MMc:  An audience member writes me that when you mentioned our world "teetering on the brink of International nuclear war in the 1980's," this brought back to him to some questions that he and others have had since then.  He asked, "Was the voice that Vern Grimsley heard one of the celestials attached to the Correcting Time?"                                              

 

MONJORONSON:  Yes.

 

MMc:  Was the message correctly heard and correctly delivered to the First Urantia Society of Los Angeles and others?

 

MONJORONSON:  Repeat that for the audience, please.

 

MMc:  I should ask first, what was the message.

 

MONJORONSON:  The message was already given.  I have asked that you provide it here within the context of this session to make the readers aware.  Not everyone has that session in Los Angeles in mind or available to them.  It is simply a courtesy.

 

MMc:  I understand.  The writer was a member of the First Urantia Society of Los Angeles.  Vern told them that international nuclear war was imminent and suggested that they leave the cities for a place where they could prepare for the worst.  Because of Vern's urging, the audience member moved to Oregon.  A nuclear war did not happen, Vern was discredited, as was TRing.  That sums it up in a nutshell.  There are some personal things: our audience member went through a divorce because of this move to Oregon, and because he believed in Vern's message.

 

MONJORONSON:  Yes, many personal relationships crumbled because of the convictions of those who heeded the words that came through Vern.  

 

MMc:  This also set up a situation where I believe the Urantia Foundation turned against not only Vern, but also against the receiving of messages at that point.  That problem is ongoing.

 

MONJORONSON:  The question is?

 

MMc:  There has been an ongoing problem with the Urantia Foundation in which it does not recognize TRing.  Would you shed some light on the lessons to be learned from this experience?

 

MONJORONSON:  Most certainly.  First of all, I think [for] our audience member who asked these questions, Mr. Grimsley did rightly perceive and receive the messages that support the pronouncement he made at the convention in Los Angeles.  The world was on the brink of nuclear war.  As you recall, the situation that developed, which the celestials foretold Mr. Grimsley about, developed from the NATO exercises in the North Sea near Russia.  The United States and NATO forces were conducting their training exercises using live ammunition and so on.  It was a very hostile and threatening situation to Russia and it was done with the intention on the part of NATO members to actually threaten Russia with the power of its might.  Of course, given Russia's background of disempowerment to most individuals, the culture that gave rise to serfdom and its permanence in the genetic code of those people, it raised their arrogance, their anger and their hostilities to the point where they too had activated their nuclear defense systems and were in preparation to make pre-emptory strikes at the NATO forces, and then at the capitols and major cities of NATO members around the world.  

 

It was only through the open-mindedness of individuals-several individuals, but particularly one who came to the courageous position to call and ask the Russian Commander what the situation was.  Your celestial friends had been an influence to the minds of all involved in making those ultimate decisions, giving them options for probable outcomes.  Individuals chose to stand down, backup and to neutralize their systems-put them in the inactive mode-and prevent a nuclear war.  It was a period of far less than a minute in which those ultimate decisions were deferred.  Now, listeners, I wish you to see the power that we co-creatively have with you, to give you and others options for decision-making.  This is co-creative participation.  Mr. Grimsley did the right thing for the right reasons, with the right intentions to develop the right outcomes.  Now, if you were a Planetary Manager, what would you say?  That was the wrong outcome?  Peace?  Standing down from nuclear war?  It was the right outcome.  

 

Now, what was the outcome for Mr. Grimsley?  We knew beforehand the probable outcomes of his personal life and his professional demise, yet in the management of a planet, this is a hugely important and necessary sacrifice.  Mr. Grimsley's recovery from that has been a wonderful process to see.  Had he committed suicide that would have ended his possibility of recovery in this terrible personal and professional cataclysm.  He was strong to remain among you.  Those who stood by him also suffered tremendously.  In the saving of your planet and your civilization, 25 years ago-or longer-this was a necessary sacrifice that even the process of revelation from the Father to each individual, would be in denial by the fundamentalists of the Urantia Book movement.  These things can be recovered in time, though this situation has persevered for so long with such tremendous negative impact upon the spiritual growth of your planet, it nonetheless will recover in time, as will the understanding of every individual once they cross into the morontial realm.  The most destructive outcome of all from this, besides the collapse of marriages, professional lives and the loss of personal resources, is that personal revelation has been denigrated because of the beliefs of these few people. 

[Note:  Mr. Grimsley "graduated to the mansion worlds" within the last year.] 

 

Why is the Urantia Book movement thought of as a cult?
 

Why is it, do you think, that the Urantia Book movement is still held as a cult movement in the world?  It is because it has not come around to accept personal revelation that occurs new to each generation.  God speaks to you.  God speaks to you through himself as your Thought Adjuster; God speaks to you through his delegates, his hierarchy of light.  These are directly in alignment with his authority and his personhood.  Christ Michael speaks to you personally, as personal revelation of the Father.  What is needed for The Urantia Book and its membership to come into the light of this world is to reunite with the acceptance of revelation.  This is immensely important.  If you look at the success or the growth of the Urantia movement in relationship to your world population, it has failed every year.  The percentage of believers of the Urantia Book movement has decreased percentage-wise every year since its beginning, particularly more so as the world population grows.  These are hard words for me to deliver to you, but there is a somber message for each of you, that God loves you, God speaks to you, your angel speaks to you, your celestial teacher speaks to you and has words of wisdom for you to accept.  All we ask is that you be personally discerning in your wisdom quotient to understand whether these statements by celestial beings are in agreement with God and God's Will.  

 

The remnants of the Lucifer Rebellion
 

Though the miscreants of the rebellion are gone, yet the remnants of negativity and disincarnate beings still remain.  Some of these are benign; some are totally neutralized; others actively affect those people who are naïve and who are untrained.  The Teaching Mission came here to do several things, one of which was to tell you that you are sons of God, that God is with you, that you need to learn the moral, ethical socially conscious ways of living to grow spiritually, to know what revelation is again, to identify and discern what is of the Father and what is not.  And in this discerning, you discern also what is from the Father through your fellow brothers and sisters.  Many of them are religious, but they are not spiritual, and in their religiosity, they are even egotistical.  You must discern what is of God and what is not of God.  We are not anti-religion, as you know; we thoroughly support religion of the worship of the Father.  We also support the revelation of God through his speaking in your mind; his speaking through myself; through Christ Michael-as he did through his Son, Jesus Christ.  

 

Revelation continues-be open to it
 

Revelation continues; be open to it; discern it; learn it; and learn how to work in co-creative participation with us.  This is what is needed to heal your world, to bring it into the days of light and life, co-creatively with us.  If you are unable to learn those things, your world will continue as it is-that would be most unfortunate.  Later, you will be able to see clearly in your morontial review time, where you failed to take advantage of those opportunities that were so blatantly obvious in front of you.  You see, although it is not a sin not to take advantage of these opportunities, it is an act of omission.  We ask you to act in commission, co-creatively to heal your world and to literally save it from centuries of darkness.

 

Did I answer your question or did I go too far astray?

 

MMc:  No, you answered my question.  Within today's topics, you answered my question very thoroughly and well.  I appreciate that you have enlarged upon the questions that I have asked.  I am somewhat blown away by the various points that are coming together for me, and I hope for our audience as well.  I can see that the co-creativity that you suggest cannot happen unless we believe in the ability of the Father to talk to us, to share with us.

 

The importance of the Teaching and Magisterial Missions
 

MONJORONSON:  Yes, you must believe in revelation.  Now, do you see why the Teaching Mission is so important?  Now, do you see why the Magisterial Mission is so important?  They are here to empower right action and right thinking co-creatively with us so that we both, together, can bring this world to where it needs to be in the future, beginning now.

 

The disappointment of angels
 

MMc:  Yes.  Would you please explain the concept of the disappointment of angels?

 

MONJORONSON:  (Laughing.)  Yes, that fits very nicely with our discourse today.  Yes, I would be glad to.  One moment.  The disappointment of angels-I have heard of this one before.  You oftentimes associate the disappointment of angels with the sinful outworking of one's decisions and their life styles and ways of living, ways of thinking.  Yet, there is a side of the disappointment of angels which many of you have not considered.  Again, this has to do with the omission of decision-making for taking right action.  In any given moment in your life, your personal life, when you are in the developmental stage particularly, and you have many things to consider and are not sure about how to proceed-or perhaps, on the other hand, you are totally sure about how to proceed-what you have failed to do causes this disappointment.   Most of you, a vast, vast majority of you fail to ask your Thought Adjuster, your Guardians, your Teachers for options in how to view the situation that you must make [before you make] a decision.  

 

Just as you co-creatively ask us to give options to other people, such as those people on the boards of directors, that you also can do this for yourself, which is far more powerful and far more developmentally engaging.  By asking us to give you options for thinking about the situation that you must make a decision [about], you allow us to participate, to actively participate in your thinking, to give you those options.  This is celestial and angelic training at its best.  You have that "ah-ha" in your mind of a new way of seeing something.  Most of you are not clairaudient channels; most of you do not hear us in your mind, yet you can still speak aloud to us and ask us to participate in your thinking, to make contributions to right decision-making and right action-anyone can do that.