Pocatello transcript 6-19-98

[Bill Kelly]

6-19-98

Business & Sharing
Opening Prayer

Aaron (Bill):  "Hello, my dear friends.  I am Aaron.  I want to thank you
all for your honest, sincere, and loving entries into this meal of communion
and fellowship between mortal and celestial will creatures.  The love and
caring which radiates from your souls permeates this room with palpable
energies, with real substance.  It is not merely a figure of speech to say
that you support one another.  You literally hold each other with love's
fondest embrace.  

The discoveries that you are making, day by day, into the true nature of
your selves as God's children, as sons and daughters, as brothers and
sisters, these discoveries are transforming your lives, are changing you
from one level to another.  You are literally becoming morontial creatures
in mortal bodies.  You have the courage to share the unpleasant, the worst
of human circumstances, instead of only remaining on the level of sharing
your pleasantries, your joys.  At the same time, your sharing is not truly
sympathy, but empathy, for you are not encouraging each other to feel sorry
for yourselves.  You are not telling war stories about my problems are
bigger than yours, but you are listening with open hearts, with clear minds.  

No artificial exercise that I might initiate, or anyone else for that
matter, can ever exceed the spontaneous choice to give and share and receive
that you do freely on your own.  Each of you can help carry the burdens of
your siblings, yet no one can make decisions for another person.  Your best
procedure when desiring to carry another's burden is to lend a hand without
removing that burden totally from that person.  They must be responsible for
solving their own problems. 
 
Indeed are the issues that have been brought forth in this latest sharing
similar to and almost identical with the great tribulation of the Lucifer
Rebellion.  Lucifer became fully convinced of his ideas after he refused to
turn back from his distorted thinking when he was aware that he was sliding
over the edge, and permitted himself to move past that point to where he
sincerely was self-deluded.  

Evil, when it is contemplated consciously becomes sin, and sin if it is not
forsaken becomes iniquity; and iniquity is virtually impossible to reverse.
The recognition of evil as evil, as error, as misjudgment, is that point at
which a person can return to the truth and enlarge their perspective, can
admit that they have erred, and keep themselves from moving into deliberate
embrace, which is sin.  This explains why some of the lesser celestial
beings involved in the Rebellion repented and were willing to admit their
error, while the major perpetrators, Lucifer, Caligastia, Daligastia, and
others on other planets persisted  in their rejection of the truth and their
refusal of mercy.  

The truth shall set you free: free from error, free from sin, free from
delusion, free from guilt, free to love, free to expand the boundaries of
your souls, free to see the enlarged landscape of the Father's love
embracing multitudinous universes, with multitudinous free-will creatures
embracing each other in joy.  

Sin and iniquity are painful and death-dealing.  Both are able to be
forgiven, for God's mercy is infinite.  But in order for forgiveness to be
effective it must be received, and this is the tragedy of the Lucifer
Rebellion.  Its self-deceived high personalities refused to admit their
errors, continued deliberately to choose them until their personality status
was near vanishing, and they were unable to change.  But those who choose to
halt their thinking along erroneous lines while they still had their sanity,
and while they still knew right from wrong, turned and changed their minds
and were offered not only mercy but rehabilitation and further universe
service.  

Difficult as it may be in the midst of painful situations to refrain from
judgment and condemnation, remember my dear friends that while you need to
know truth it is not up to you to determine another's eternal destiny.  You
do not have to be the judge and the arbitrator of any one's life, including
your own.  Try to understand how Michael could forgive His murderers while
He hung on the nails through His hands, his body supported crudely at the
crotch and the pressure on the nails through His feet and yet looked upon
these men and women and said 'Father, forgive them for they know not what
they are doing.'  It is God like to forgive and human to err.

Embrace your total human experience; look at all the dark crannies and
corners of your life with the searchlight of truth.  But do not become stuck
in judgmental, conditional thoughts.  None of us knows another person in the
entirety of their experience so that we could be competent to judge.  Only
God, through His agencies, has that wisdom.  I am not suggesting that grief
be pushed under the rug, no.  I am saying that over time, healing will come,
even as in the Rebellion.  Far more good has come from permitting its
existence than in squelching it immediately.  

I have concluded my remarks this evening.  I appreciate your listening ears.
I am Aaron, your friend and teacher.  Good evening."

Daniel (Bob): "Regarding the nature of the discussion this evening that
Aaron put forth, I would like to ask of you to take a few moments and ponder
your concepts of self-will and God's will, and how they relate in your
lives.  I am Daniel.  So often self-will is put forth as God's will, and
these terms are not so easily identifiable.  

I would welcome any questions or thoughts each of you may have regarding how
you perceive these influences within you life, the struggles you may have to
achieve the higher in place of the lower, as well you are welcome to ask
questions of any nature, but perhaps my seed of thought can spark a
discussion regarding these matters.  The floor is open to you, my friends.
Good evening."

Virginia: "Teachers, did I understand that you want us to discuss self-will
and God's will, and how this works out in our life?"

Daniel:  "Virginia, yes, this is a hopeful discussion point we find may be
fruitful in coming to some understanding regarding the two perspectives.
Perhaps you could lead with some thought regarding how you view God's will
in your life and perhaps the struggles you go through to attain these
leanings as a part of your own will."

Virginia:  "All right, I think you've asked me to begin and I think the
biggest issue that is in the forefront of my thoughts are probably my
tongue.  I think of the verse in the Bible that says 'he who bridles his
tongue is stronger he who might take a city.'   So often my self-will, says
'man, I'm going to get the last word in here.'  And often I am muttering to
myself, help me keep my mouth shut because I know that this is really the
better road to take rather than always having to prove an issue or to show
someone something they really don't want to know anyway.  So, I think the
biggest issue that I am working on and dealing with is simply to control my
tongue.  It doesn't necessarily say mean things, it just says things that
are not necessary."

Daniel: "This my friend is a deep insight on a soul level, to recognize that
the careless or perhaps ..."

Virginia:  "Useless?"

Daniel:  "The very next word I was to say ... useless usage of language
certainly does not fall within the realm of God's will for you.  Of course,
we struggle and do not always attain such levels, but you recognize your
desire to become more willing to allow those realizations a place in your
actions.  Also recognize myself and Aaron and Minearisa and Isaac and Simeon
will speak interchangeably here this evening regarding this discussion.

Perhaps it would be of some benefit to do a circular movement, and as
Virginia has begun, we could carry to the right and allow you to each
discuss your knowledge, thoughts and perhaps even confusion regarding
self-will, and God's will as it relates to your lives."

Ken:  "Greetings, Daniel, Aaron.  It's nice of you to be here this evening.
When you said (inaudible) .... I'm sorry."

Daniel:  "This is OK, my friend.  When you differentiate between the words
you may utilize with another, in how you may speak with another, if we set
these aside and look more to the inner motivations that guide you, not
simply in conversation but in life, do you find that the road of self-will
is a valueless path whereas the divine will holds all value?  How do you see
the role of self-will and God's will in your life?"

Ken:  "My self-will at this point is dominant with respect to the Father's
will, trying to understand Him, trying to make my will His will, trying to
understand, to be honest and true, to overcome my fears that I may step out
and speak the truth."

Daniel:  "Thank you for your thoughts here.  A quick question which I would
ask each of you for a simple yes or no answer regarding, would be do you
find, or do you feel, that there is value in expressing self-will?"

Group: "Yes."

Virginia: "I think we all said yes."

Daniel:  "Of course, this is probably an obvious question that I'm leading
to ask you, Pat, regarding .... rest easy, Ken."

Ken:  "I don't know how to take that."

Daniel:  "By the expression of self-will, Pat, what value do you see coming
from a person who has the ability to express their own needs and wants freely?"

Pat:  "Would you repeat that?"

Daniel:  "By your expression of self-will as a person, what benefit do you
see being gained by having the freedom of this expression?"

Pat: "Funny you should ask me that!  I have trouble doing that.  I'm a
little bit opposite of Virginia and Ken in that I have difficulty expressing
my thoughts and my views, and I know that there is much value in expressing
yourself, and growth.  And I'm trying to learn to do that.  I guess that's
my will and not the Father's will, that I'm dealing with.  Does that answer
your question?"

Daniel:  "I think you have answered.  Thank you.  I would take a moment
before moving on to mention some key points about the expression of
self-will.  The ego gains its most dominant status through repression, for
here it finds a need to run counter to the repressive influences by building
an overinflated view of itself.  And here the ego plays masterfully in
disguising its efforts for it is not always the loudest voice or the most
boisterous personality who seems to be ego-filled.  Quite often does the ego
manipulate its way into dominance through creating reinforcements, anything
to protect the self.  If one cannot see a means to boost its image then the
ego may manifest more in building sanctuaries where the personality cannot
manifest due to the over-protective environment of the ego that has fallen
into fail-safe protective measures.  Self-will is any decision made by the
self, regardless of negative or positive influence.  Therefore, self-will in
and of itself is not a negative thing.  The self can choose the higher or
the lower, and therefore, by learning to express one's self, you become more
able to understand the various influences, learning where the protective
boundaries may have been a little too tight, where the perceived dangers may
not have been so threatening after all, where the animal instincts and the
divine will clash, offering numerous opportunities to make choices, to align
one's self with the higher will of God.  And so therefore through expression
of the self you become more able to function healthily to make choices,
either higher or lower.   The place of stagnation where the lack of choices
are is almost more dangerous than to have the opportunity to make incorrect,
negative choices.  I hope you understand my meaning here."

Pat:  "I do, and thank you very much."

Daniel:  "Gwen?  With the self-will topic, I would simply like to understand
your perspectives of how you view not only the discussion so far, but your
own struggles and efforts to discern God's will and to function thusly in
your life."

Gwen:  "I think for me I'm having trouble discerning self-will.  I'm
struggling with it for the most part I think its because I have an ego that
needs to be in control of everybody around me as far as how they see me, and
how they act, and if they're happy, you know, and so for me, I guess I'm
struggling with what I feel is self-will for myself, and I can, a few times,
see this light at the end of the tunnel on occasion when I leave everyone
else out of the picture and just see a clear self.  And I guess right now I
feel that in order to feel God's will I need to address this struggle with
my own self-will, and I feel that may be in itself be God's will.  I'm not
too sure about that..."

Daniel:  "Let me reinforce your conclusion.  This is indeed so."

Gwen: "I guess I need to just clarify it for myself by saying it again.
Self-will for me is when I'm walking down the street on my own two feet, and
the cracks in the sidewalk or the hazards that are in the way, don't affect
me walking down the street in the sense that ... I'm trying to explain this,
but I'm getting too abstract .... that I'm unaffected by other people's
thoughts and can have my own thoughts, I guess is what I'm trying to say, I
mean, everyday I tick and I feel myself ticking based on my boss and what
she thinks of me, and  my co-workers and what they think of me, and my dog
and what he thinks of me, and on occasion all those clouds just clear away
and I honestly feeling that I'm doing something, just me walking down the
street and not having all these things affect me.  And so I think that
that's the self-will I'm struggling for. Thank you."

Daniel:  "It is a difficult endeavor to break through the hold that ego has
on the will.  Let me define this as ego not being negative, but protective.
Honest self-will is much as you describe this capability to focus upon the
self and your own needs.  The ego tends to endeavor to protect you by giving
you these perspectives on what everything else requires of you.  

Therefore, you may manipulate and try to please the various influences.
Rather in a more healthy view to be able to break through the clouds, as you
say, and recognize just yourself and your own needs offers the opportunity
to become more in relationship, to not only yourself personally, but also
with the Spirit indwelling you.  It offers you an opportunity to in more
clarity have God's will present and more conscious in your life.  For you
may choose more effectively based on those inclinations rather than the
bombardment of the various influences.  

And so, as you recognize these glimpses of selfhood, realize these are
healthy manifestations, trying to bring you into a more definitive state of
selfhood.  Recognizing yourself as distinct from the wishes and machinations
of your environment.  In short, the progression is healthy to find this
state you speak of more consistently.

And, Barbara?"

Barbara:  "Yes.  Which question would you like me to answer?  You've asked
about five of them!"

Daniel:  "Any thought you have regarding what has been discussed so far, not
only based on my leading questions, but on what you've heard from others
that has sparked thought within you, and also you views on selfhood and
God's will."

Barbara: "I have a lot of thoughts.  When you first asked your initial
question which was self-will and God's will and how do you know the
difference or how do you differentiate between them, the first thought that
came to me was I needed to understand self will better.  And it's been
discussed, but my first thought was that there are ego needs and then there
are, for lack of another term, non-ego self needs.  And I certainly want to
align those, the non-ego self needs and will closer to God's will, and my
question that came to my mind when I first thought about this was how do I
know that they're becoming somewhat more aligned more frequently?  And the
answer than came to me was that I have to look at intention.  And if I look
at my behavior and my needs, and my wants and my wishes, if I can identify
them as ego needs, I don't come down hard on it but I recognize that there
is something in my environment, there's something in a situation, there's
something in my fears, there's something that is triggering ego defenses.
And I need to understand those.  

So if I look at my behavior and say, and can honestly say, that my intention
is to win, or the intention is to hurt someone, or the intention is to be
praised, or the intention is to garner something from another person, then I
can identify that as an ego need.  And if I look at the intention and
determine that it's not one of those things, and therefore, by default, it's
in another category, it's to help another person or to give love to another
person or to be supportive or to make a decision that will benefit me in the
long run, those kind of things.  Then I see those as self will that's
becoming or more closely aligned with what I think is God's will.  But I
really don't know until I analyze the intention.  Because I think that I'm
behaving in a way that's compatible with God's will, or making decision, but
I don't always know until I look at it, and look at intention.  And I don't
come down on ego.  

I hear so much negative discussion about ego, and maybe I'm being naive, but
for me ego is also God given, it's God given to protect the human organism
from real dangers and from imaginary dangers.  But I think it's important to
be able to recognize when ego is out in front and driving behavior, and that
occurs for me when I'm not secure in myself.  When I'm secure in myself ego
can take a rest; it doesn't have to be there all the time.  So sometimes I
don't know what God's will is.  But I try to look at the intentions now of
my behavior.  Those are my comments and my thoughts based on your questions
and based on the discussion."

Daniel:  "Yes, ego is a definite part of the cosmic plan of evolution.   In
this sense it is God given.  Ego is not a negative factor seen from
spiritual view in and of itself.  Ego is self, the protective mechanism for
self.  When the negative aspects are placed and commented upon regarding
ego, generally it is about the manifestations that are unhealthy, rather
than exclaiming the entire ego to be a negative part of the human being.  

Intentions are key in all things.  It is a way for one to understand where
the will is acting from, by seeing the need, whether it be to hurt, to bring
joy, to bring understanding, anger, to any situation.  By seeing these
motivations, one can more easily recognize the source of will that is
guiding the actions.  

Some actions are not so easily recognizable, for there are many
opportunities where humans do things that would appear to be kindness and
gracious and loving that are based more in self will and ego need than in
God's will.  An example would be the need to please another, not so easily
capable of discerning that this is where the need arises.  But for the most
part the capability to discern motivations and intentions aids immeasurable
in bringing self-consciousness to the individual.  

By having self-consciousness the individual has brought a sense of selfhood
to themselves, thereby offering the opportunity for the divine will to
manifest itself, again much as I communicated with Gwen.  Bringing
consciousness to the self offers the opportunity for the self to make
choices based on the higher good, not only of itself but of all.  And in
long-term evolution this recognition of self becomes more and more
undiscernible from a healthy perspective, selfless.  

It is difficult for a being to be selfless until it first knows itself.  For
many actions appearing selfless, do not necessarily have a base in
selflessness, more so the integrated individual has the capability to lose
consciousness of itself because it already understands itself.  And losing
the self-consciousness is then due to a healthy regard for the capabilities
of oneself, such that ther is not an ego need that needs to be fulfilled.  

All of these aspects are healthy in your perspectives tonight.  Each of you
have added great insight to the pot.  

Isaac?  I know that these types of issues are fascinating to you as an
individual, not only due to your great regard for the Urantia Revelation,
but also in your philosophic manifestations which you hold hobby with.
Therefore, I would greatly love your insight regarding self will, God's
will, and the various contributions here this evening."

Isaac:  "Well since this has moved from person to person and you've asked
several questions, my thoughts have also traveled over a road here, similar
to Barbara's, I think.  I'm also keeping in mind the earlier comment of
Aaron, the part that I can remember, where self will appears to have been a
deliberate choice of evil and a deliberate continued choice of evil. So I
guess I would have to say that it seems clear that self will is of great
importance to God, because He has ordained that each of us have free will to
choose good or evil.  It in itself then has to have the highest value, self
will.  That is the ability to make choices, and the fact that there is a
choice between going in a direction of error and then choosing to continue
in error when you know it's error, that is contrasted then with the opposite
choice.  That is, to choose the truth, and to choose to do the right thing,
and to continue to do the right thing.  And I feel that when self makes a
choice to choose the truth and do the right thing, that is synonymous with
doing God's will.  So, I think I'll have to agree that self will is a
wonderful endowment, that God's decided to make a universe where people
could really choose to go against Him, shows His incredible trust and
grandeur of character that he would share that ability, which is free will
choice, of His own, which He has innately as deity, with His creatures..."

Virginia:  "That sounds pretty philosophical, Bill."

Isaac:  "...and I'm grateful that I can choose to do wrong, for it implies
that we do have free will.  I'm not happy when I choose to do wrong, and
I've done some of that in my life.  I'm much happier when I choose to do
what I understand to be the right and truthful thing.  Does that answer?"

Daniel:  "Your insights are greatly appreciated, my friend, for they do
underline the neutrality of self will and the influences of good and evil,
negative and positive, right and wrong.  The self, in itself, is not
negative.  The choices one makes regarding self identify with higher or
lower, correct or incorrect choices.  It stands to reason that the higher
choices would, of course, be in alignment with God. And therefore, the
healthy recognition of self brings the initial capabilities to become a
willing participant in the journey toward higher human development.

Well, this discussion has certainly evolved to various levels.  We are
pleased at your part in the discussions.  It certainly has taken paths that
we did not necessarily intend, for with your free will choice and ours, the
development is more natural toward the needs of the various individuals.
Let me say before I close and allow Minearisa to close the session, that
simple insight from the Urantia Revelation that states that doing the will
of God is really nothing more or less than the individual creature's
willingness to share their inner life with God.  In this perspective,
particular choices are not necessarily as important as the desire to be a
part in life with God, which brings the opportunity for higher enlightenment.  

With these words I would now close, and thank you for your participation.
Minearisa?"

Minearisa (Bill):  "Greetings, my children, my brothers, my sisters, my
friends and my students.  It has been a while since I have spoken with you,
but I have been attentive and eager to enjoy the interactional wisdom which
has been generated tonight in this forum.  Indeed is it true that you are
apostles and disciples.  At times you are teachers and at times you are
learners; and this is the pattern of the universe this side of Paradise.  We
Melchizedeks are sons of the local universe and our knowledge is quite
extensive in this realm, but you children of mortal status shall become the
administrators, teachers and workers, all the way to the highest level of
training and presumably for the highest level of opportunity and service.  

Occasionally it benefits you to lift your eyes above your short lives on
this planet and see the perspective before you even as it benefits a hiker
to turn his or her eyes from the path that the feet are upon and gaze out
over the landscape behind them, not only to see the progress they've made
but to gain some perspective on the grandeur of their journey.  This process
of lifting your eyes from the path to view the horizon, to see the largeness
of the beauty of God's creation, is one of the benefits of silence, of the
quite time.  It is something that will help you in your journeys.  

Some day you will be beyond the reach of my jurisdiction and my experience
as you journey on to the Super universe and beyond that to the Havona
worlds, and ultimately to stand in the very presence of the Trinity of
Paradise.  What an honor, what a joy that day will bring!  Thank you for
your diligent cooperation, your loving hearts, your faith-filled souls.  

Go now in peace and may you experience always the love that showers down
upon you from God and His universe of brothers and sisters.  Good evening."